Panel: How OTT Ad Platforms and Technology Give Marketers Both Scale and Precision

Join us for an insightful panel discussion exploring the transformative power of OTT (Over-The-Top) ad platforms and cutting-edge technology in the marketing landscape. This session delves into how marketers can achieve unprecedented scale and precision in their advertising campaigns.

Moderator:

• Mark Papia, CEO of Big Dog Integration

Panelists:

• Jason Fairchild, Co-Founder and CEO of tvScientific
• Mike Hood, SVP of Advertising and Partnership at NBCUniversal
• Shannon Lee, e-Commerce Business Development Manager at Revive
• Tiffany Lemos, Vice President of Agency Development at Basis Technologies

In this discussion, we'll highlight the innovative contributions of Jason Fairchild and tvScientific, a leading force in leveraging data-driven strategies to optimize OTT advertising. Discover how tvScientific is revolutionizing the way brands connect with their audiences through precise targeting and measurable outcomes. Don't miss this opportunity to gain valuable insights from industry leaders and stay ahead in the rapidly evolving world of OTT advertising. Subscribe for more expert panels and discussions on the latest trends in marketing and technology!

Mark Papia:

Thank you. Thank you. Want to make sure everybody has flipped that little button up on your microphone? Okay. Hope everybody's having a great afternoon. I'm having fun. This being number two and number last, I'm quite excited. We talked earlier about in the media buying and media planning panel, we talked about OTT and Connected TV being used as a tool for even business to business ad messaging. And for those who are in the room, we talked a little bit about account-based marketing, very niche marketing efforts. This panel is going to take us a little further into that realm where through large ad platforms and very cool ad technology, we have the ability to target a very rich, deep audience. So we have four panelists today and these guys one way or another probably work together because everybody in our business works together either directly or indirectly. But we have NBCUniversal, very huge organization, big owned and operated business, probably has some out-of-house audience expansion opportunities. We have tvScientific, great ad Technology, which is going to talk to us a lot about how Connected TV is really a performance tactic. We have Basis, which is a great business that I've been working with for probably 30 years.

They have the ability to work in every single programmatic tactic known to man and that's great. And finally, we have an organization that is about as close to Prime TV and Amazon as an organization can be. It's so close in fact that its founder was an early Amazon employee. So each of these companies are different, separate, distinct, and the four in aggregate are going to give everybody in this room a really good understanding of what the opportunity is when it comes to precision targeting and achieving great numbers. So let's start with Mike, and let's start with Peacock. So I'd like you to tell us a little bit about Peacock's growth. And for clarity's sake, I want you to know that I'm not one of the people that you guys pissed off during the NFL, with the playoff Kansas City Chief playoff games. So tell us a little bit about Peacock and its growth the last several months.

Mike Hood:

Yeah, appreciate that. And actually the overwhelming, I think reaction to it once it was live, once that game was live was incredibly positive. It went off without a hitch. It proved that you can have a major, major moment that everybody in America is watching together at the same time in a streaming world. So I thought that that was a great moment. 

Mark Papia:

I believe, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the press reported the week after that. It was the largest streaming sports event in history.

Mike Hood:

It was the largest single day of Internet bandwidth usage in history. So that's how much we are all doing online and that was a remarkable stat. I think it also exceeded the viewership from the year before, which was available on both linear and streaming. So the question about do you minimize your total potential reach by making it only available in streaming was answered. People will find it if they see value in it. But the growth of Peacock has really been, I think with a lot of tailwinds. We launched in 2020 when everybody was looking for more content to consume at home. We actually accelerated the launch and we had the tailwinds of all of the great NBCUniversal content and that was something that we knew was going to bring people there. We also brought back some of our legacy library content from other platforms like The Office, which quickly became the number one show.

We made some big bets, and maybe at least in my opinion, it seemed like accidental huge moments with shows that weren't even our IP like Yellowstone, which has continued to be ubiquitous with the platform even though we weren't the original creator. And we saw this exponential growth, which then with each one of those tentpole moments, like the wild card game, like the Tokyo Olympics, we're expecting another massive, massive one in a few weeks. We are now at the point where just in a couple of years we've surpassed the original kind of AVOD stream or Hulu, which took 10 years or so to get there. And we're really excited that the growth, which is now a hundred million monthly active users in the US are on the platform for those major moments – but they're staying. So for every hour of live sports viewership that people tuned in to watch either that or the Kentucky Derby or WrestleMania, they stay for another nine hours of entertainment content. And the average consumer on Peacock is actually on there for 20 hours a month. 

Mark Papia:

And that affects everybody in this room.

Mike Hood:

Yeah, absolutely.

Mark Papia:

Whether you're a content developer or a media person.

Mike Hood:

So that's that tentpole moment that brings people on. But people want the breadth of content. We position ourselves as the streamer that has it all, but the biggest asterisk to that that I'll say in this room that we don't say to the consumers, we have it all with ads. So 85% plus of our subscribers have chosen the ad supported tier, which I think really helped us scale quickly. And it was never this afterthought of we needed to find another way to monetize or we wanted to make it cheaper. The consumer actually has chosen, and we'll talk about the ad experience later and I think that's a big part of it.

Mark Papia:

Perfect. One of the things I do want to chat about before we move on is Peacock Ad Manager, which is something that you guys have created to help people like me actually take ads from these folks and place it within your content.

Mike Hood:

Yeah, we're excited about that. And that's a partnership with Jason. And you didn't know this when you put this on the panel together or sat us next to each other, but for a hundred years we've had some incredible brands, but there's a limited number of them that have been buying from NBCUniversal. What we want to do now is bring every brand that wants to advertise for performance reasons or for scale precision reasons in the best possible content so that you don't have to decide, am I going to bring my brand into a really precisely targeted, efficient play like maybe social media or even a platform like YouTube, or do I want to advertise within Sunday Night Football? And Peacock Ad Manager is allowing us not to have to force brands to make that choice. So you're going to be able to in the next few weeks, log in, use a credit card if you want to, sign up, choose the content you want to reach, choose the types of audiences you want to reach, and then with help from the tools that Jason's team has developed, you will know every single impression whether or not that user then took an action like going to your website and purchasing a product.

Mark Papia:

So Jason's company, tvScientific, publishes a State of Performance TV Report every year, and I just pulled two tidbits from the latest report came out about a month ago. 54% of marketers rely on Performance TV to generate pipeline. 65% of advertisers report an increase in sales when Performance TV is added to the media mix. What do you attribute the power of Connected TV to what's generating this lift?

Jason Fairchild:

Yeah, I would say it's not necessarily Connected TV that's generating, it's TV. It's television as a medium is incredibly powerful. We've all known this intuitively, really since we were many of us or most of us were born, right? It's been what, 1950s from 1940s where TV kind of caught on as a major medium. What we've not been able to do is really quantify the impact of TV on bottom of funnel until CTV came along. Because if you think about it, CTVs are streaming services that set are delivered over the Internet. The Internet has this unique capability to provide a feedback loop with the right technology assembled in the right way. So we can deterministically connect the dots between an ad viewed and then an action taken where that action could be a website visit, could be a purchase, it could be really any outcome an advertiser wants to measure, you can measure it post ad exposure.

So that's the big breakthrough is being able to connect those dots and that's what we do. And that's kind of one component. And then once you understand ad exposure to outcome, and you can measure that effectively, then you can optimize against it. You could notice for example, that a lot of the ads delivered between the hours of 9:00 and 10:00 PM outperform every other hour. So what the algorithm would do is, okay, let's do less of the other hours and more of that hour to scale the performance where again, performance is what an advertiser declares they're after. It could be a walk-in at an auto dealer, it could be a higher ed application, it could be whatever outcome a marketer's interested in and we can now measure it and then optimize to deliver against that outcome. And he did say we work with Peacock Ad Manager, we power the upcoming Peacock Ad Manager, self-serve platform. So any marketer of any size from the pizza joint in the corner all the way up to major agencies if they so choose, can set up an account, activate a campaign across Peacock and measure the impact, whether that's reach and frequency or actual sales or anything in between using Peacock Ad Manager, which is powered by tvScientific

Mark Papia:

Now Basis, heading over to Tiffany, has the ability to help media buyers get that Connected TV up out into the ecosystem. But you also have the opportunity to layer in audio, layer in display, layer in mobile. So all tactics all the time. I don't know if you know this, my first meeting with Basis was probably in 2004 in your Chicago offices.

Tiffany Lemos:

I did not know that.

Mark Papia:

And that's when you guys were the shop that was focused on locality. Right now everybody's talking about getting local, right? So you've got thousands of clients, you've managed nearly $2 billion in media spend. How has Connected Television changed the world at Basis?

Tiffany Lemos:

Well, I can say, so my background actually, I was actually on the supply side for Connected TV at SpotX and Magnite for eight years. So I watched CTV actually become an ad medium. I don't know if you guys remember, but back in 2017, I remember someone was trying to place a CTV ad buy. We had 3 million impressions and you could buy them in the US and that was it. There was no targeting, you didn't know what you were getting and that was what was available. And you guys, that was seven years ago. So when you think about just how nascent this part of the industry still is and how far we've come, I actually think it's drastically changed. Media buying drastically changed how the industry is working. And I think this is one of those things where it's had this massive tipping point because like everyone's saying today, TV should just be called TV.

It should not have all these acronyms, it should not have all these different things that we apply to it because what we want to do with it is still the same. We want to reach consumers at scale. And to Mark's point, we want to do local activation at scale. Think about the massive financial institutions, think about the gyms, think about car dealerships, think about QSR. We want these big, big, big brands that want to have very localized messages because consumers want to purchase in very different ways. And to Scott's point, when he was up here earlier, his 18-year-old son at the very front end of the 18 to 49 versus him at the tail end of the 18 to 49, they purchase in very, very, very different ways. But we want to reach them with different messaging at scale in all these different markets and all these different ways. And what Mark is saying is you have to work with a lot of different data partners. You have to work with a lot of different ways of reaching these consumers. And that's one of the things we do at Basis is we actually tie into 170 different vendors via API connections to get that data in, to get the attribution in, to have the full funnel marketing so you know exactly where your marketing dollars are going, who they're talking to, and actually if they're actually doing something from what you guys are doing.

Mark Papia:

Perfect. Now Shannon, you're like the new kid on the block, not in that Amazon is new, but Amazon really rocked everything in January, when they got into the ad business in a big way with Prime Video. What can you tell us about the trajectory of Amazon Prime since advertising began in January?

Shannon Lee:

Sure. I mean, from being Revive, which is an Amazon ads partner, we were patiently waiting for Amazon to give us access to Prime Video to be able to leverage for our partners. I mean, the size of Prime video is pretty incredible. I'm sure you all are aware that they had their first ever upfronts last week, and we learned that there's 175 million monthly users, and Prime Video is a big part of that. We're looking at right now, the estimate is about 115 million ad supported users. And when we look at the chart of overall of all the other STV or OTT providers out there – at Amazon, we refer to it at STV mostly not OTT – but if we're looking at all the other OTT ad supported platforms, prime is sitting at the top at 80% viewer penetration. Peacock is right below us at 77%, Paramount is at 73%, Hulu is next at 68%, and then at five is Disney Plus, which drops all the way to 25%. Max is actually at 21%. And then Netflix is currently at the bottom only reaching 7.5% of viewers. So it's incredible that right out the gate already have so much viewer penetration. And then e-Marketer actually just released that they're estimating the subscribers to grow to 130 million by the end of the year.

Mark Papia:

So everybody in this room is really focused on OTT and Connected TV or television, right, but you all like to meet people where they are. So Amazon is broader than just the TV play at this point. Can you just touch upon that briefly?

Shannon Lee:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you think about Amazon and all the different channels that we have access to, it's kind of like having five platforms in one essentially. So with, sorry, the STV, we have Prime Video, we have Freevee, Amazon even has a publisher-direct inventory resources that they've created. And then you're looking at audio. So I'm sure most everyone in this room owns an Alexa in some capacity. There's been over 500 million Alexa sold worldwide. We also know that 90% of US households have some type of smart connected device. Then you're looking at display and online video. Again, Amazon owned and operated properties, things like Twitch, again, the Amazon publisher-direct inventory and third party exchanges. But with the audio and the display and online video, we actually are able to further define that targeting and really tap into Amazon's rich first-party data and layer that across all of those partners. And then the last piece is digital out-of-home. So not sure if you're aware yet, but we can reach customers throughout Whole Foods Markets and Amazon Fresh stores across the US now with placements as you first walk in, there's the entrance kiosk, there's hanging screens near the coffee counters, the pizza counters, they're even placed in aisle now. So we can reach shoppers as they're searching for very specific products. So when you look at it like that with Amazon, we truly can reach people wherever they are throughout their day. 

Mark Papia:

Back to Tiffany, which perfect segue, you're talking about an omnichannel approach to media. So if there was an omnichannel shop, it would be Basis, how does Connected TV change the omnichannel picture? Some of the folks earlier today referred to Connected TV as the tip of the spear.

Tiffany Lemos:

I like that concept. I think that's pretty cool. In terms of how CTV is changing the landscape, I would say it's the fastest growing channel within all of Basis. And we cover everything from direct search and social and all your programmatic buying from audio, video, display, digital out-of-home. And we even have a programmatic broadcast radio now too. So CTV is one of the many players across our entire platform. But to that point, CTV is the biggest growing channel, the largest growth in the programmatic, the PMP library. So the private marketplace library, the largest growth by far, and I'd say it's like 2:1 or 3:1 growth is within CTV private marketplaces across all the different publishers within the ecosystem. And then what we are seeing too, I like the stat with that, you were saying with how for performance-based tv, there's all these stats saying it's actually helping translate into customers. And so we actually are saying CTV is both top of the funnel, but it's also bottom of the funnel as well. And you can actually have CTV throughout the entire customer journey. It doesn't just need to be for brand awareness.

Mark Papia:

In the panel earlier today, Jason, we were talking about data as the foundation for smart targeting and we talked a little bit about the efficiency associated with bringing data into the ad campaign. Most of your campaigns tie to retargeting pixels or many do I believe.

Jason Fairchild:

It's a mix of hundreds of different tactics around data from retargeting to first-party data, third-party data, sort of the whole generation one DSP paradigm of targeting and being able to buy using first and third-party data. That's kind of layer one of the tech. Then the measurement, attribution, analytics, and then optimization are kind of levels two, three and four that work in concert to drive outcomes. So data, it's interesting, we start every campaign, someone will come in, we had this direct to consumer sock company. They come in, they say, we want to market these socks and we think our audience is X, Y, or Z. We want to upload, we want to execute against whatever data segment from Experian, whatever it was. I'm making some of this up – but the sock company was real.  We executed the campaign and we said for 20% of the campaign, we're going to let buy in the wild, we're going to follow the data and the data being the feedback loop.

So we went for, call it 30 days and the D2C company with the segments that they wanted to target, let's say they did a 1.4 ROAS, which is good and they were happy with it, but we found in the data and the experimental component that this different audience segment, it was a Hispanic audience segment, was over 5 ROAS and we were all excited. We come back to this person and the Head of Marketing, we say, “Hey, great news. The core of the campaign based on your hypothesis and your data segments worked really well, but we found this new segment based on this audience profile.” And the reaction shockingly was “No, that's not our target demographic. They don't buy socks.” Well, actually they do, and the ROAS is like four times better than, and so the point is we believe you should experiment with all of the data, but don't ignore the actual feedback loop.

What's actually working, that is hitting the KPI that you're actually trying to hit, which is not reach and frequency in most cases. In some cases it is, but it's usually tied to some outcome. And I think we're at this inflection point in the industry where the top 500 advertisers who buy on a reach and frequency basis, they represent about 85% of all TV spend and they're coming to CTV to do what reach and frequency. I think they're missing the opportunity. I think Delta Airlines eventually will buy based on a cost per ticket sold or cost per loyalty card sold, not on a reach and frequency basis because you can't go to the board and say, I'm spending $200 million on reach and frequency. What you really want to do is go to the board and say, we're spending $200 million and here's a return on our ad spend. And that's the future of it. And it's grounded. If you look at Google and Facebook advertisers and what they do at a much smaller scale.

Mike Hood:

Just got really moody in here. Somebody from Delta is turning off the lights. No, I think what we have to do as an industry though to get to that point is really all speak and encourage marketers and some of you are marketers to really value all of the different touch points and not just the last one. And we hear this all the time, but a performance marketer who's responsible for the performance marketing budget is never going to get fired by spending more money on a Google AdWord that looks like it's driving a conversion because you can point to it to your CFO and say, I put in a hundred dollars here, we sold $200 worth of tickets. Maybe you would've sold $500 worth of tickets if you used a big beautiful CTV ad on your big screen and you could prove it, but you do need to give that top of the funnel or all of the points in the funnel a fair shake. And there was a good, I think it was Raquel who earlier on showed a really good diagram of the phone was what the person used to buy the product, but they didn't even know about the product until they saw the billboard or the TV ad. So I think if we can tell that story and now we can prove it, then we'll be in that spot that you just talked about.

Mark Papia:

So I'm going to repose the question, and it's great that you recalled that from Raquel's keynote this morning. So the premise was that data is used heavily in targeting and optimization, but the question is, what about attribution? Does the data exist to enable folks to make a scientific judgment on attribution? What led to the conversion?

Mike Hood:

Yeah, I mean it's, that's why CTV is still a useful term. I know everybody wants to get rid of it, but if you're plugged in with a broadband cable, you're getting the signal that you're not from either the air or your coax cable. And we're owned by an amazing parent company that still has a lot of coax cable in the country, but we're capturing that signal back. So you have to have trusted partners who can build these solutions at scale. Because if everybody builds a walled garden, and I know Amazon has a very big garden, so maybe certain ones can, but not everybody can have a walled garden where you're capturing all the information, delivering the great content, and then capturing the conversion. But if you have partners like a tvScientific, what we've done is we have unified our ad tech stack. Comcast actually acquired a company called FreeWheel, which was being used to distribute NBCUniversal content across 300 distribution endpoints.

Those are all through one unified tool now. So whether you saw an ad before you watched a clip of SNL on Sunday morning on Peacock, or you watched it live on SlingTV, that information is all being captured the same. And then as long as the marketer is also willing to share the information in a private way that this conversion took place, the match is there. There's no more guesswork, there's no relying on panels or even a six week later brand lift study. It's there in real-time in dashboards like the one that tvScientific built with us that you can see this impression led to this conversion. This one did not. 

Mark Papia:

Jason, anything you could add to that?

Jason Fairchild:

Yeah, I mean we have a whole layer of tech that's attribution analytics, and it's based on sort of the latest and greatest technologies around measuring actual impact of TV from incrementality testing to Halo to path-to-purchase, from time-date stamp of ad delivered, all the way through order ID and everything in between, including last touch. There's well understood ways to discern the impact of any given marketing channel, including TV. So it doesn't have to be guesswork, but it does take some intellectual curiosity. You can't just say, well, what was my last click, man? We'll call it a day. And these guys, MBAs will sit around and do that and they won't have the discussion around, well, it's actually multi-touch. And so there has to be some intellectual curiosity. And I'll just say that it was in the early days of paid search, we saw people struggle with how to rationalize paying 25 cents for a click versus two, but everyone learned through that. And same thing happened at Facebook, and the same thing will happen in TV. I think personally that outcome-based TV will feel the same kind of price increases for publisher inventory and TV that we saw in both search and social, which means there'll be a hundred dollars CPMs driven by actual return on ad spend as a foundation within the next few years.

Mike Hood:

Yeah, somebody said earlier today that finding the next 200 advertisers for Fast Channels or for OTT is going to be a challenge, but it should be millions if you have the technology there. Every one of the 2 million people that are advertising on social or 2 million brands that are advertising on social have an alternative and sometimes a better option.

Tiffany Lemos:

This actually is proving one of our sales pitches is having an overarching technology to oversee all of your media so that you aren't having all these disparate resources that don't talk to each other. So someone like Basis can actually help sit over all of your media buying from activation all the way through actualization and see all the components of where and what and how you're spending your dollars, and then actually match back up on the backend and actually show you what results you're doing. And those are through data partnerships like tvScientific and other players in the space where you can actually have that data actually built in over the top of all of your campaigns. But if you are to the point, if you're working with a bunch of walled gardens, they aren't going to talk to each other. Not all data players work in the sandbox with everyone. So just keep that in mind when you are looking at the overarching campaign, overarching brand strategy that you want to employ.

Mark Papia:

The juxtaposition of having Tiffany and Shannon sitting next to each other is striking.

Tiffany Lemos:

But I really like Shannon. 

Shannon Lee:

Really like you so far too.

Mark Papia:

Here you have Tiffany who has to conjure up an attribution model for scores of different tactics, and you've done it quite well, clearly. And here you have Shannon, who represents Amazon, who runs commercials on Prime that may often lead to an Amazon sale. Difficult, difficult for basis. 

Tiffany Lemos:

I was just going to say don’t get me wrong, if Prime wanted to open up their inventory to us, I'd be the first to sign up!

Shannon Lee:

Maybe someday. I mean we're all really excited about it. It is so new. So I mean, maybe that is something in the future. I don't know if they would ever open it up, but yeah, it is very different. We're not able to track attribution and conversions and metrics the same way that all of everyone on stage is. I mean, we're looking at obviously tying back to sales, but I mean we look at different metrics too to prove performance for STV in terms of did branded searches across Amazon increase. We do a lot of path to conversions to prove out that STV and display are driving those sales. So focused on the last click, last touch attribution as well. 

Mark Papia:

But do any Prime ads tied directly to an Amazon store.

Shannon Lee:

Prime ads? So the STV ads aren't clickable. So the way that we can do that though is that we can put QR codes across the ads so people can scan and then be directly taken to whatever page you so choose, whether that's on Amazon or off. And then there's also add to cart options that we can create in the ads to try to drive traffic directly to those pages. But the ads themselves are not clickable.

Mark Papia:

And do people ask that question? Your advertising prospects, do they want to know if one day that can happen or if there's a bridge there?

Shannon Lee:

And we typically direct them towards online video if they want clickable video ads. Because right now that's, other than using any of those like interactive STV interactive betas that we have access to, it's just not there yet.

Jason Fairchild:

When you see the data and someone sees the TV, of course you can't click on a TV, at least I can't. So when you see the data though, let's say it's a pizza, Domino's pizza ad happens and literally 30 seconds later an order takes place, it's not hard to connect those dots in a high confidence way. And one stat is 95% of the people watch TV do so with a phone or a tablet on their lap or in their hand, 95%. So the actual feedback mechanism often is not a QR code, it's doing what we all do naturally. It's like, oh, that's interesting. They pick up and go and make a purchase or buy pizza, whatever it is.

Mark Papia:

Perfect. I see we have five minutes left. Are there any questions from the audience? Any hands? No hands? Okay. Think if there are questions. So earlier in the keynote this morning, there was the Steve Harvey slide who saw the, is Steve Harvey great or what? I mean I am not like the biggest Instagram guy on the planet, but I get addicted to his little clips on Family Feud. They're absolutely hysterical. So Raquel, she had the top five Steve Harley slide up, and the thing we weren't going to talk about today was Converge TV, but I have to, let's do it. I have to not in the room. NBCUniversal One platform. You have to tell us about the One Platform.

Mike Hood:

And I don't know if it was just a long week for Scott or if it was too early on a Monday morning. Our presentation in the upfront is at 7:00 AM Pacific time, so it's very early. We kick things off 10 o'clock at Radio City. But we were really proud of the idea of not needing to buy a demo if you don't want to, that we have entered the point in the marketplace and in our industry where you can buy on an audience. And we did talk about that. Of course, we presented our trailers and our shows and all of the content that we're really proud of, but we also focused a significant amount of time and energy on the idea that you now no longer have to decide, I want to buy a show because it indexes with this demo. And I think this demo also might have kids and maybe they're interested in buying a new car or a sports drink or something like that.

We have moved way beyond that. So FreeWheel, like I talked about before, allows us to reach an audience based on the first-party data, the second-party data, the third-party data that you mentioned, and we can find them across 300 different distribution endpoints. We can also send that exact same feed audience. So if we know an example, because in-house we also own Fandango as part of the NBCUniversal family. We know the 10 million people that went and saw the last Deadpool movie, and so there's a new Deadpool movie coming out. Let's take that audience of those 10 million people and maybe all the people who saw the John Wick movies and all the other whatever it is, and let's find those 20 million people and figure out what they're watching on television. And then we actually reverse engineer media buying on TV to reach those people across linear digital, TV, even different distribution endpoints, display. And so yeah, the vision of just being able to find an audience wherever they're watching, whether it's coax cable or Internet streaming is here. So we were really proud of announcing that. I think that's the truest definition, at least for an advertiser, for Converge TV. And it's just going to continue to be that way until everybody is plugged in with the same type of cable.

Mark Papia:

Now, will somebody be able to take advantage of One Platform with the Peacock Ad Manager?

Mike Hood:

I would say they're slightly different audience segments right now. Audiences meaning the marketer. So Peacock Ad Manager is meant for advertiser 2000 to 2 million to be able to access NBCUniversal. So if you have a local car dealer and you only want to reach people who are in market in this area and they're showing signals, you can still run ads on NBCU through Peacock Ad Manager. One Platform is really for the advertising agencies that previously had been buying demos as a proxy, they can now buy an audience across all so slightly different. I think there's a future soon where linear TV will still be or will be available through tools like that. But right now they're slightly different clients that would use them.

Mark Papia:

Perfect. Thank you. Last call for questions. Any questions? Well, that's a wrap. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.